If you suffered from a stroke or are a caregiver of a stroke, you want to listen to Marcia’s story on how you can recover. You do not have to accept the statement “that’s as good as it gets”. 

Do not miss these highlights:

[01:51] Marcia had her stroke in 2014 and got aphasia 

[04: 38] If you don’t agree with the person who is treating you, you won’t get better!

[06:41] How Marcia’s positivity helped her recover

[12:25] Utilizing neurofeedback to help regain the power of speech

[14:54] The effects that a stroke can have on your communication skills

[16:20] If your gut barrier is leaky, your brain barrier is leaky too, which can cause inflammation in the brain

[20:00] Finding the drive to become a health and wellness coach after surviving the stroke

About our Guest:

After successfully building her business over the last twenty-plus years, Marcia Moran thought she had life by the tail. Little did she know what was in store. Marcia has written over fifty business plans and helped entrepreneurs strategize over how to differentiate their companies in changing environments. After helping other entrepreneurs start their companies, she decided to found her own business consulting practice, Performance Architect, in 2012 and co-founded Positive Business DC that same year.

She suffered a major stroke in 2014. Marcia applied her skills in planning and strategy as she strived to become whole. She never gave up. Over time she learned to walk again, but Marcia struggled with aphasia, a language disorder. She joined Toastmasters International® hoping to regain her speaking abilities. It helped some, but in August 2017 she discovered a technological breakthrough that minimized her speaking disability. She then pushed beyond her comfort zone to become a Toastmasters International Club Officer in 2017, then Area Director in 2019. Marcia created Stroke FORWARD because she felt there is a need to share hope to stroke survivors and their caretakers. Learning to become her own health advocate one step a time and exploring holistic methods for healing are keys to her recovery. Marcia speaks and shares her message of hope, inspiration, healing, and a way forward. She welcomes new opportunities to help individuals affected by major health crises move ahead. Marcia lives with her husband Jim, two very loud cats, and one bird near Washington, DC. Jim played a role of caretaker.

Connect with Marcia: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/marciamoran/

https://www.facebook.com/StrokeForward

www.StrokeFoward.com (email: marica@strokeforward.com)

https://twitter.com/Stroke_Forward

Transcription of Episode #125:

Debra Muth 0:02
Welcome to Let’s Talk Wellness Now, I’m your host, Dr. Deb. This is where we talk about everything wellness, and learn to defy aging, and live our lives on our own terms. Hey everybody, this is Dr. Deb from let’s talk wellness now and I am super excited to have with me, Marcia Moran. Today, we are going to talk about stroke, which is such an important topic and now more so than ever with what’s happening with COVID and the COVID vaccine. We’re seeing more problems but Marsha’s conversation is different than that. But I think we’re gonna find takeaways that will help us with some of the things that she’s learned over the years. Hi, everybody, this episode is brought to you by my very own Phoenix factor your coaching program. Look, we are all trying to create that absolute perfect life. Let me show you how to do that for free. In my virtual coaching strategy call. You and I are going to spend 20 minutes chatting about your desires where you want to take your business life, your health, and of course, your sex life. And then I’m going to give you tips and ideas and techniques on how to actually get that going. So you can have that absolutely perfect, amazing life you’re looking for. Now it’s super simple. All you need to do is click on my calendly link here in the podcast notes. And hop on pick your time. And let’s start creating that amazing life that you’re looking for.

Debra Muth 1:41
Marsha, welcome to the show.

Marcia Moran 1:43
Thank you very much Dr. Deb.

Debra Muth 1:45
So Marcia, tell us your story. How did you get involved in talking about strokes?

Marcia Moran 1:51
So I actually had my stroke in 2014. And I had aphasia which means I had a communication disorder. And I couldn’t talk. So I went to Toastmasters and a few other places to try to speak more. And I didn’t help. So I finally found an answer in 2017 when I had neurofeedback, and we can get to that later. But when I gained the ability to talk, I thought I may as well go out and tell people what it’s all about.

Debra Muth 2:28
Oh, absolutely. You know, stroke affects so many people. And we think that it only affects older or elderly people, but it doesn’t. I lost my dad at 63 years old to sorry, thank you. And he had heart issues and was on blood thinners. But then when he threw his clot, it just destroyed his entire brain and was not a good situation, bring him in. But it’s a blessing that, that he passed instead of trying to live like that, because I lost my grandfather to a stroke as well. My grandfather was very young as well, he was about 65 calf stroke and left him completely paralyzed on his right side, no ability to speak, talk, communicate nothing, and lived for 15 years like that. Stroke can be extremely devastating for people. And then for other people, it can be not so devastating. I have a brother in law who had a stroke at 48. And it was very mild didn’t leave any problems for him. But stroke is really a it’s a problematic thing that we don’t talk about a lot.

Marcia Moran 3:37
Yes, um, and I think that’s a shame. So there’s so many people, 4.5 million people have had a stroke. So there are a lot of people out there who are stroke survivors, they can get so much better if they look for unique solutions to their problems. So if somebody says, their ear as good as you get, it’s been a year, and they’ve believed it. They’re done. They don’t get any better. But if you believe that you can get better day after day after day, for the rest of your life, you will get better.

Debra Muth 4:14
And unfortunately, a lot of times in the medical community, that’s what we tell people like your brain is damaged. You can’t repair this part, you you can’t get better. Or we can only give you so much physical therapy. And if you don’t make so much improvement insurance isn’t going to cover it. There’s not a lot of positivity that goes along for people that have had a stroke. It’s a lot of negative things and you got to push to help yourself.

Marcia Moran 4:38
Yep. So I actually find that if I am, get out of sync with my doctor, I decide to find another doctor who thinks with me because if you don’t agree with the person who is treating you, you won’t get better.

Debra Muth 4:55
Absolutely and people what she’s saying is a very nice way of fire yourself. If they’re not giving you are helping you the way you want to, they can make referrals to people, they can make connections for you. They can document things that helps insurance coverage. But if they’re not willing to do that, then don’t feel bad about finding somebody else that will align with you and get you what you need. Because this is all about you, not them, right. And trust me, as a doctor, we don’t feel bad about that. Like, we’re not going to know if you decide to go someplace else. If you don’t tell us we won’t know that you’ve left our practice, you won’t, you won’t, you won’t hurt our feelings about that if you don’t reach out and send us a nasty letter if you send us a nasty letter we know. But if you don’t say anything, and you just quietly go away, they won’t notice that you’re gone, especially in a very large practice. Yep. So tell us how you got through your journey of the stroke.

Marcia Moran 5:53
So I had my stroke on a Sunday. And that was really important to me, because if I’d had my stroke during the week, I probably wouldn’t have survived.

Debra Muth 6:04
Why do you say that?

Marcia Moran 6:08
So when my husband found me on the hallway floor, I had collapsed. I had absolutely no, no, I have no, I have no energy. And I think that if I’ve been left to go for the rest of the day, I would have just been gone. Now. Do I know for sure? Absolutely not. But I think…

Debra Muth 6:35
Intuitively, something tells you that. Yeah. Yeah. We have great intuition if we listen to it.

Marcia Moran 6:41
Yeah. So one of the things that helped me get better is I have a positive attitude.

Debra Muth 6:49
Key to all the health right is our attitude and how we think about things.

Marcia Moran 6:54
Absolutely. So I didn’t say Why me? Oh, no. I said, Okay, this is where I am. In one year, I’m going to run a 5k marathon.

Debra Muth 7:07
Good for you. Now, have you always had that personality of being positive and looking at the upside of things? No. Very interesting. So what made you have that attitude about this?

Marcia Moran 7:20
So in my 20s, I was Eyeore. And over time, I realized that if I was so negative all the time, I always felt negative myself. So I slowly transition how I was thinking about things. So when I had my stroke, I was a very positive person. And I think it has a big difference in the way things turned out for me. So I didn’t think oh, no, what horrible thing has happened to me and go cry in a corner. I went, Okay, this is how I am today. I will be better tomorrow. And the next day that okay, I’m better today than I was yesterday. But tomorrow, I’ll be better. And I’m not saying that I had good days all the time, because I didn’t. But I thought about what I would let myself be down for a little bit. And then Okay, okay, now it’s time to get back on the positivity horse. And

Debra Muth 8:26
yeah, we always have those moments. And I think it’s important to go into those moments, Grace, those moments, recognize that they’re there and why they’re there. But the biggest thing that you said that so important is you allowed yourself to have those moments. And then you said, Okay, enough of this, we’re not having these moments anymore. I’m getting myself up, I’m picking myself up, I’m brushing myself off, and I’m getting back out there. And I’m going to try again. That is what keeps us moving and healing. And if we don’t do that, that’s what that sucks the life out of us and gets us in a bad place and prevents people from healing. We see it every day.

Marcia Moran 9:04
Well, I think a lot of it has to do with neuroplasticity. So if you give up something that you started trying, you won’t be able to do it because you don’t have any No, neuroplasticity is neuroplasticity to support it. But over time, if you do it time after time after time, you’ll get it wired into your brain, and it will become natural.

Debra Muth 9:27
Yeah, what we call that is cell memory. You know, once you do things over and over and over again, the cells remember that and they can do that without us having to think really hard to make it happen. And that’s cellular memory is so important. So how long was your journey of healing?

Marcia Moran 9:47
I’m still on it. So I feel like I’m 94 my name 5% there. So I’m pretty close to 100% but I still have have a foot that cramps all day every day? I’d like that to go away.

Debra Muth 10:06
Yeah, I don’t blame you. That’s a miserable thing.

Marcia Moran 10:09
I have some ringing in my ear. I’ve got a slight bit of pain. So I’d like those things to go away. But if they don’t, I’m okay with that, too. Yeah, yeah.

Debra Muth 10:21
How long would you say it took you from being debilitated at your worst? And I’d love to kind of hear a little bit about what that was to get into a place where you knew like, Okay, this was this is going to be better. I’m going to be 70% better or 80%? Better.

Marcia Moran 10:41
It took me three and a half years. Okay.

Debra Muth 10:44
That’s a good amount of time. And I’m assuming a lot of work. Oh, yeah.

Marcia Moran 10:49
Every day, all day, or? Yeah, yeah. So um, I had spurts where I call them sleep, super soft, sleeps, super sleeps. And that meant I was tired. And I went to bed for a long, long time. And when I woke up something else fall into place, or fell into place. And after three and a half years, I had my last super sleep. And that’s when it’s like, everything had fallen into place. And I knew that it would be better. I wouldn’t be writing again, like I used to do. But I would have a new life.

Debra Muth 11:32
So what kinds of things did you have to learn a new way of doing? You could still do what you love to do.

Marcia Moran 11:39
I had to learn how to walk again first. And that took about a year and a half before it looks like I walked normally. I don’t really but it looks like I do. And that’s okay, I guess. I’m moving my arm when I’m walking. took some time to talking. That was a really hard time thing. So talking. It was three and a half years we found before I found neurofeedback. And after 16 sessions, I began talking like I do today, which is pretty good. That’s very good.

Debra Muth 11:39
Can you explain to our listeners what neurofeedback is?

Marcia Moran 12:25
So neurofeedback is a device that attaches to your head with EKGs. And they use a it’s like a sticky substance on your head to make a clear connection. And it pulses small, small energy pulses into your brain. And it’s so small, I couldn’t even tell that there was anything there. So I had to look at the computer monitor to see that my brainwaves are showing up. But they use one 100th of a triple A battery. Oh my gosh, that’s, that’s so small. Yeah, I couldn’t feel it. And when I left the office that day, I actually spoke better. So the thing that I realized is when I had aphasia again, that’s a communication disorder. There’s the people talking to me, and my brain would say, this is what you want to say. But I couldn’t say it. So I had to think of something else that I could say that I could maybe communicate what I wanted. So the neurofeedback, those two came together, and I had one talking voice again rather than two.

Debra Muth 13:49
So, did your doctor recommender or feedback for you? Or did you have to seek out neurofeedback on your own to speak better?

Marcia Moran 13:58
So a doctor that I saw, began neurofeedback and he suggested that I try that. So, it happened because I had found this doctor in the first place.

Debra Muth 14:13
So I’m assuming you went through traditional speech therapy at first absolutely exhausted speech therapy. And they kind of said, this is as good as it’s gonna get for you.

Marcia Moran 14:23
They said I had all the tools in my toolbox to get better. And they said, I probably wouldn’t talk as fast as I used to. I think I do. Maybe it took a while, but I think I talked fast.

Debra Muth 14:40
That’s awesome.

Marcia Moran 14:42
Um, but without neurofeedback, I had I still had these two people talk to my head all the time. And it when I said something to someone, it wasn’t what I really meant. Huh. And I would I didn’t talk as deep as I would either. So I could say hi, how are you? Somebody wanted to talk to me about getting a job. And we talk start talking about the details of the job. I would clam up. I couldn’t say it.

Debra Muth 15:18
And it was in your head, you knew what you wanted to say. I knew what I wanted to get it out. Yep. That’s so frustrating, isn’t it? I mean, that happens as we age naturally, but but to a different degree of what I’m experienced, I’m sure. And so it’s frustrating when you know what you want to say, and you can’t say it, exactly. And part of that happens from the parts of the brain that are damaged, and part of it happens from the inflammatory process that happens in the brain. So neurofeedback actually helps to heal that process a little bit, it obviously can’t repair all the damage to our brain cells in the brainstem and all that, but it can reduce that inflammation, and it can make things work better for you. You know, it’s interesting that you said reduces inflammation, because I actually changed my diet as well, because I was eating things that gave me a leaky gut. Yeah. And I realized that if I changed my diet, I would change the amount of inflammation that I had. Oh, it’s so important today, that gut brain barrier, which we didn’t even know about, five, six years ago, you know, we just started learning about that gut brain barrier. And, and if you have leaky gut, and for those of you who are listening that don’t understand the term we’re talking about, it just means microscopic holes in the intestinal tract and our food particles leak out may hit the immune system may create a lot of inflammation. But we know your gut barrier is leaky, your brain barrier is leaky, too. And then that can cause inflammation in the brain can give you a lot of these types of symptoms that Marsha was talking about.

Marcia Moran 16:51
Yep. So it’s interesting. I saw a neurologist after I have a stroke, and he said that my my carotid artery dissected. And he looked at my carotid, Ernie said, you’re okay. You’re not going to have any blood flow through this again, I’m going okay. I came back a year later, I had blood flow through it again, because I changed the way I ate.

Debra Muth 17:20
Mm hmm. Such a huge thing. You know, when we talk about how things benefit from us from a health perspective, diet, hands down is like the biggest thing that you can do to make yourself feel better stop occlusion of things, open the blood flow, get the oxygen moving. So much of it is diet. And unfortunately, conventional medicine doesn’t talk about diet much at all us. I imagine. No one spoke to you about changing your diet after your stroke or if they did, it was very minimal.

Marcia Moran 17:51
Yes, until I saw this doctor, the one who suggested I try neurofeedback, he suggested that I see if I was allergic to anything, any do some blood. And it was amazing. So I’m allergic to eggs, my milk, gluten soy, I mean, everything is a whole lot of things. Yeah.

Debra Muth 18:15
So he was an integrative neurologist, then. No, he was a chiropractor. Oh, so he was a chiropractic car. How do they train them? A neuro chiropractor, I think is what they call them or a chiropractor with a neurological expertise in there. Yeah. Wonderful. Wonderful.

Marcia Moran 18:35
So they interesting thing is I saw him for acupuncture, but not chiropractic.

Debra Muth 18:43
That’s okay. Right. It doesn’t matter necessarily how we get to people, we just need to get to the right people.

Marcia Moran 18:48
Exactly.

Debra Muth 18:49
Mm hmm. So what puts you How did you find this person? You went on a journey to find something different? How did you find this person that you could connect with?

Marcia Moran 19:00
I asked my friends if they knew of somebody who could help me find an acupuncturist. And I had one say, I know someone but he’s a little bit different.

Debra Muth 19:13
That’s usually when you know you’re in good hands when they’re a little different. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s so interesting. Oftentimes, we don’t think of asking our friends and family if we know someone, we go to the internet and we look for somebody and we don’t really know what we’re looking for. But so many times somebody we know knows somebody that knows somebody, right? And they can point us in the right direction, and then we can do our own research on that. Yeah. So you’re on somewhat of a journey, because of your stroke. Tell us a little bit about that. Um,

Marcia Moran 19:50
So it’s interesting. You said, Tell us about your journey because in March, I decided to go back to school.

Marcia Moran 19:59
Good for you. I’m going to school to become a health and life coach. Wonderful.

Marcia Moran 20:06
And I realized that I needed this because so when I was told, I could eat anything I wanted except what it was on the list. And it was about, it was about 30 things I’m allergic to, or sensitive to looking at the same guy. What?

Debra Muth 20:24
it’s all the major things that are in every major food we eat, right? So.

Marcia Moran 20:30
So I decided I’m going to become a, I want to give stroke survivors and caregivers. Something more than “you can have anything you want, as long as it’s not on this list”.

Marcia Moran 20:51
I’m sorry.

Debra Muth 20:53
Well, I think when we start talking about those changes, in our world, we think like they’re normal. Everybody knows what these foods are. Everyone knows where these foods are at, because we know them as practitioners. But we forget a lot of times that the person we’re talking to this could be brand new for them. And they don’t understand that eggs are not dairy and they don’t understand that beef is not dairy sometimes. And we don’t always know where our food comes from. Because we don’t teach that anymore. And it’s not on everyone’s radar unless you have a problem with food. It’s not on your radar to know about all the food sensitivities and all the problems that you can have from them. So you’re going to be someone that’s going to help hold their hand and walk them through this journey of identifying what they can have and what they can’t have and options for them.

Marcia Moran 21:41
Exactly. So today I made chickpea flour tofu, which sounds weird. I’ve made it before. So I know it’s good.

Debra Muth 21:51
Mm hmm.

Marcia Moran 21:52
And as someone who’s allergic to soy, I think it’s a great. It’s something that I can implement into my food that I won’t have to rely on soy for. So it was either nothing, or I had soy, but now I have this.

Debra Muth 22:13
So it’s about being creative. And we need help when we do that, right. So when we’re new into the world, because we’re gonna waste a lot of time and a lot of money creating foods that we go, Oh, this is disgusting. I’m not eating this. Or we can have somebody help us do the fast track and say, here’s a really great recipe, you’ll like this, you’ll get used to it, it won’t be so bad. But you won’t spend you know, $25 on making something and then throw it all in the garbage. Because you’re like, I can’t dunk. You know, nobody else house does. And that’s been me. Yeah, as people with food sensitivities, they’ve done that work. And it’s hard. And it’s it’s tedious and torturous. So you can help them cut to the chase. Oh, that is wonderful. What other things in your journey of health and wellness coaching? Do you want to take that stroke person through?

Marcia Moran 23:06
So I think a lot of times when you’ve had a stroke, you’re you’ve had first has a stroke, and you’re lying there and you’re thinking, What am I gonna do? At least I’ve been there, I know what it’s like. So you can talk me about how you feel. And I can listen to you. And if you want, I can share what I went through myself. And we can connect there. I think a lot of people who haven’t had strokes don’t know that. It’s really hard.

Debra Muth 23:40
You’re lonely, it’s lonely, when nobody understands what you’ve been through.

Marcia Moran 23:44
It is. And I think for caregivers, they also have a different perspective on stroke. And I can listen to them as well. It’s funny that you say that because my husband was my caregiver. And we will have disagreements over stuff sometimes. And it’s okay, because he’s absolutely right with his opinion. It is. I totally, that is how he thought. But I thought from a different perspective.

Debra Muth 24:18
Yeah. And I think it’s okay, like you said, for both of us we see from different perspectives. Yeah. You’re the you’re the patient, so to speak, and you’re going through it one way the caregivers going through it another way. And to have somebody that can talk to either person from that angle, I think is so necessary. We need that support group. We need that connection, so that each party can be heard and understood. And then you can give them tips and tools and tricks on how to navigate different things when there’s a struggle or there’s a conflict or there’s just something you’re trying to get over a hurdle. Right?

Marcia Moran 24:59
Exactly.

Debra Muth 25:01
So you have a wonderful book that you’ve created. Tell us a little bit about that.

Marcia Moran 25:08
So it is straightforward how to become your own healthcare advocate one step at a time. And I created it for stroke survivors, caregivers and advocates are people who want to become advocates. And it has, as you said, tips and tricks in there at the end of each chapter. The thing that I think is most important for stroke survivors is I think that or I say, don’t give up ever.

Marcia Moran 25:39
Yeah, I think again, because it’s so powerful. I think people really need to hear that. Okay. stroke survivors. Don’t give up, ever.

Debra Muth 25:51
Powerfully, powerfully, I love it good for you.

Marcia Moran 25:54
And for the caregivers? Do you need to take care of yourself? You need to eat right, you need to sleep well, you need to exercise. If you aren’t in good health, you will not be able to care for the stroke survivor. Yeah, it’s so true.

Debra Muth 26:14
I think sometimes as a caregiver, we give so much to the other person. We don’t see that we’re getting burnt out. And we don’t see that we’re not taking care of us. We’re not eating right, exercising, we’re not sleeping, we’re worried about them all the time, which puts us on edge and burns us out. And then we can’t fully be there for the person we’re caring for.

Marcia Moran 26:33
Exactly.

Debra Muth 26:34
Extremely difficult.

Marcia Moran 26:35
And you also have to take some time for yourself. Yes. It’s not all about the stroke survivor. I mean, okay, as a stroke survivor might say, Oh, no, no, no, that’s wrong. Seriously, it’s important to take care of yourself. And that means you take time for yourself.

Debra Muth 26:55
First of all, where can they find your book stroke forward.

Marcia Moran 26:58
They can find it on amazon.com.

Debra Muth 27:01
Awesome, awesome. And I think people that are listening, if you are a stroke survivor, or you know someone who’s a stroke survivor, or caregiver, I think you really want to look at getting this book for people, because this will help catapult them to a different level, get them the tips and tricks that they need so that everybody flourishes from a situation that could be a challenge. But it doesn’t necessarily have to be that challenge. And you need to look up Marcia, so she can help coach you along the way and help you with resources and tips and things that you can do to help each other grow and flourish and have a good outcome from the stroke no matter how severe it is. Absolutely, yeah. So Marshall, what’s your mission? I think my mission is to help stroke survivors and caregivers become or actually become his throne word. I, I want them to gain enough. You know, I don’t know what it is. So before I started the coaching, it was to help them get gritty. I like that.

Marcia Moran 28:19
I like that. But now that I’ve started coaching or the coaching program, I don’t know if it hits me anymore. So I know, I know that it’s I think getting gritty as part of it. But I think it’s not all of it.

Debra Muth 28:34
Mm hmm. And what do you mean by gritty?

Marcia Moran 28:37
So it means that when you feel bad or down, you still get up? You still do things. And you go to the mat, even though you don’t want to.

Debra Muth 28:51
Yeah, you get up and you fight right. So even on the days, you don’t feel like doing it even on the days that you feel like you can’t you find that grit to do it anyway. Yeah. And you’re their coach to say, hey, today, I know you don’t want to do this. But you’re going to anyway to God. And I’m going to help you. Yes, yes, we all need that coach in our corner, right? And now more than ever, for these people. You want somebody in your corner to say you’ve got this, you can do this. I know it’s hard. And you want it to come from somebody who’s been in that same place. Because if I tell them that it’s a completely different story than if somebody who’s been in their situation tells them that I think you’re absolutely right. You know how hard it is. And you know, the days when you didn’t want to do it and you did it anyway. Yeah. And look where you are. Yay. so fabulous. I’m so glad that you did the hard work to get to this place and that you’re the voice for this community. Because this community needs a strong voice and they need somebody that’s going to get behind them and push them to a better level for themselves. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, Marsha is we’re closing things out here, what are some last words you want to share with our audience. So my last words are going to be a repeat. I think that stroke survivors need to be sure that they never, ever give up. It’s just even a little movement every day helps. Absolutely, you can still do things in the world, you might have to do them a little differently. They may not be as easy as they were before, but you can still do them. So that’s huge. Marshall, how can people get in touch with you, if they connect with you? they resonate, they know somebody that needs your services, how can they get in touch with you,

Marcia Moran 30:39
They can contact me through Stroke Forward. So it’s Marcia ma R, CIA, at stroke forward .com (marcia@strokeforward.com)

Debra Muth 30:48
Wonderful. And look for her book Stroke Forward on Amazon. If any of you that are driving or working out. While you’re listening to this, don’t worry, we will have all of her contact information in the show notes and in the social pages, so you’ll be able to reach out to her. And please if you know anyone who has suffered a stroke or a family member, share this information with them because it’s so necessary for us to get this out there to help stroke patients recover the best that they can as much as they can.

Marcia Moran 31:18
Absolutely.

Debra Muth 31:19
Marcia, thanks for being on the show. I so appreciate you being here.

Marcia Moran 31:22
Thank you for having me, Dr. Deb.

Debra Muth 31:24
Awesome.

Debra Muth 31:27
Hey, it has been really great sharing this time with you guys on the let’s talk wellness now podcast. If this episode has helped you or you feel as though this episode would help someone else we’d love for you to leave us a review, share this podcast. And if you don’t want to miss the most exciting episodes we have coming. We’d love for you to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes or Google Play. Until next time, live every day to the fullest.