Episode 138: Cardiac Changes Related to the COVID and Vaccine Injury with Dr. Peter McCullough

Dr. McCullough joins Dr. Deb to discuss the cardiac risk factors of COVID illness and V-Injury. Dr. McCullough shares data on the cardiac inflammation seen with this disease and they discuss the new disease that is being seen as a result of this virus and post-vaccine injury.  

Do not miss these highlights:

[04:32] The effectiveness of Oral and Nasal Virucidal Rinses and Washes 

[05:11] The virus sets up camp in the nose in the mouth for about 3 or 4 days before it actually takes off as the infection so, there’s an opportunity to zap it

[06:45 ] In Finland, they have an approved antibody nasal spray against COVID-19

[07:47] August 30, 2021, CDC reports that 12,908 fully vaccinated Americans developed COVID-19 and there were deaths among these being reported

[10:17] The evidence seen in EKG and echocardiogram suggests that vaccine and myocarditis is far more serious than anything seen with natural infection

[12:54] The vaccine injuries are far less treatable across the cardiac, neurologic, and immunologic spectrum of disease

[13:16] Cardiac damage occurs far more in younger men than women after the second shot of the vaccine

[18:51] A discussion around the blood clotting issues with vaccines

[24:15] If there’s already injury in an organ system that is at risk for the vaccine, the consequences could be worse. 

[27:23] A look at recommended early treatment programs and innovations against COVID

Resources Mentioned

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About our Guest:

Dr. McCullough is board certified in internal medicine, cardiovascular diseases, and clinical lipidology. He cares for advanced patients with common  medical problems including heart and kidney disease, lipid disorders, and diabetes. He has become an expert on COVID-19 illnesses and welcomes recovered patients into his practice. To inquire on Covid-19 related questions, email pmccovid2021@gmail.com 

After receiving a bachelor’s degree from Baylor University, Dr. McCullough completed his medical degree as an Alpha Omega Alpha graduate from the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School. He went on to complete his internal medicine residency at the University of Washington, cardiology fellowship including service as Chief Fellow at William Beaumont Hospital, and master’s degree in public health at the University of Michigan.

Dr. McCullough has broadly published on a range of topics in medicine with > 1000 publications and > 600 citations in the National Library of Medicine. His works include the “Interface between Renal Disease and Cardiovascular Illness” in Braunwald’s Heart Disease Textbook. Dr. McCullough is a founder and current president of the Cardiorenal Society of America, an organization dedicated to bringing cardiologists and nephrologists together to work on the emerging problem of cardiorenal syndromes. His works have appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine, Journal of the American Medical

Association, Lancet, British Medical Journal and other top-tier journals worldwide. He is the editor-in-chief of Reviews in Cardiovascular Medicine and senior associate editor of the American Journal of Cardiology.

He serves on the editorial boards of multiple specialty journals. Dr. McCullough has made presentations on the advancement of medicine across the world and has been an invited lecturer at the New York Academy of Sciences, the National Institutes of Health, U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), and the European Medicines Agency. He has served as member or chair of data safety monitoring boards of 24 randomized clinical trials.

Since the outset of the pandemic, Dr. McCullough has been a leader in the medical response to the COVID-19 disaster and has published “Pathophysiological Basis and Rationale for Early Outpatient Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) Infection” the first synthesis of sequenced multidrug treatment of ambulatory patients infected with SARS-CoV-2 in the American Journal of Medicine and subsequently updated in Reviews in Cardiovascular Medicine. He has 35 peer-reviewed publications on the infection and has commented extensively on the medical response to the COVID-19 crisis in TheHill. On November 19, 2020, Dr. McCullough testified in the US Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs concerning early ambulatory treatment of high-risk patients with COVID-19. Dr. McCullough is a COVID-19 survivor himself and welcomes post-COVID-19 patients into his practice and will help them through the range of post-infection complications.
https://www.heartplace.com/dr-peter-a-mccullough

Transcription of Episode #138:

Debra Muth 0:02
Welcome to Let’s talk Wellness. Now I’m your host, Dr. Deb. This is where we talk about everything wellness, and learn to defy aging and live our lives on our own terms. Welcome back, everybody. It’s Dr. Deb from let’s talk wellness now and I am so excited today I am bringing to you a very special guest. Today, I am going to be talking to Dr. Peter McCullough. So for those of you who don’t know Dr. McCulloh, he is a Board Certified internal medicine, cardiovascular disease and clinical methodologist. He cares for advanced patients with common medical problems, including heart and kidney disease, lipid disorders and diabetes, and he has become an expert on COVID-19 illness and welcomes recovered patients into his practice. This is a going to be an amazing interview you guys because I’m going to talk to him about how he got on this track of being an expert, why he got on the track of being an expert. And what can people do to help protect them selves and their loved ones, a from ending up in the hospital? b from developing any kind of chronic illness? Because they either got sick, or they took the vaccine? And how do we turn this around? What does he see in health care, that helps us turn around the state of affairs that we’re in right now. So you guys hang tight for a minute here, we’re gonna go to a break and we are going to be right back with Dr. mercola. Today’s episode is brought to you by vibrant female. Now we’re all trying to build a fulfilled life. One that’s exciting, fun, and leaves us fulfilled and energized. But we don’t all have the energy the drive or the bodies we want. So I’ve created the vibrant female coaching program. And you know, I have just recorded a training on how to supercharge your life with maximum brain function, optimal energy. And yes, I’m going to say it, mind blowing sex and reawaken the female goddess inside of you. Now, who wants this amazing free webinar, if you do, just hop over to vibrant female.com slash training, and it’ll be in the show notes here as well. And you can get access to this free program where you can learn all about the things that I did to regenerate my life, get the body that I want. And yes, have mind blowing sex as well, while running a business, taking care of clients and raising my family. So check us out. It’s the vibrant female health program. And it is that vibrant, female calm. And for your free webinar training. It’s vibrant female.com slash training. Welcome back to let’s talk wellness. I am with my colleague, Dr. Peter McCullough. He is an academic position in Dallas, Texas. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Dr. Peter McCullough 3:25
Well, thanks for having me. I’m a practicing internist and cardiologist in Dallas maintain my boards in both specialties and very involved editor of a major journal editor of a major medical society. I’ve been focusing on heart and kidney disease throughout my career, but the last near nearly two years now have been completely dedicated to the pandemic response and COVID-19 both on early treatment and on vaccine safety and efficacy.

Debra Muth 3:50
Well thank you for that. That is amazing. And I’d love First I want to say thank you for your protocol because we’ve been using your protocol in our practice. And thank you to that because none of our patients have ended up in the hospital with it. So we’re very blessed to be using that protocol. It’s been really amazing. So tell us a little bit about what got you into this realm of treating patients that had either complications after they had COVID or keeping them from having complications. And I know you’re also doing some Vaccine Injury so we can talk about that a little bit to

Dr. Peter McCullough 4:24
It the biggest update I have and where we are late to the game on this but this is very important for the listeners is oral and nasal viral Seidel rinses and washes This is really important. The rest of the world has been doing this it was a breakthrough a clinical trial by Choudhury and colleagues prospective randomized trial 606 individuals who were coming down with COVID-19 they were coming down with it, and they were randomized to dilute 1% povidone iodine or better dine washes in the mouth, nasal sprays and even eye drops and they were able to reduce Incipio infection by about 75% on there’s other supportive studies showing, you know, we’ve been focusing on hand sanitizers and masks, we haven’t been focusing on the virus in the nose in the mouth. The virus sets up camp in the nose in the mouth for about three or four days before it actually takes off as the infection there’s an opportunity to zap it. So we now recommend twice a day for those who are still susceptible. So this would be the vaccinated and the unvaccinated who have not had the respiratory infection. All those susceptible people, they should use 1% povidone iodine, a few drops in a juice glass of water gargle it, spit it out. nasal sprays do that twice a day. If iodine sensitive can use dilute hydrogen peroxide, even dilute sodium hypochlorite one or two drops of bleach and a gluttonous just glass of water will follow up by Listerine or sculpt because it freshens the mouth and also it is additionally virus Seidel but do that twice a day if exposed to COVID-19 then ramp it up to four times a day for three days. And if early sick with COVID-19 I have all my patients do this as a starter. It reduces the viral load in the nose mouth and also reduces their ability to spread it to others in the household.

Debra Muth 6:08
That’s amazing. That is so good because it’s so easy right and I’ve been doing this for years when I travel on a plane. I have an essential oil nasal spray that I use in some glycerin base and I spray it before I get on the plane I spray it after and knock on wood since I’ve been doing it for years. I’ve never caught anything on a plane. And essential oils comes with a little bit of a bite if you spray that up your nose where Peroxide and Iodine those things aren’t so bad. They don’t cause irritation that you don’t even really know you’re doing anything with it

Dr. Peter McCullough 6:38
Yup but very dilute I’ve had a few patients just use it almost straight to say don’t know importantly, these things work and you know, in Finland, they have an approved nasal spray that’s antibodies. It’s an antibody nasal spray against COVID-19. So so people are using innovative, oral and nasal approaches right now it makes sense. There is a paper from the Wisconsin Department of Public Health. The first author is Ryan Mirza. And that paper showed in the vaccinated and unvaccinated with a Delta variant, large viral loads large and so the vaccinated need to use this approach just like the unvaccinated they’re equal in terms of carrying the virus. Yeah,

Debra Muth 7:22
I think that’s one of the things that we’re seeing that people who are vaccinated think they’re safe, and they’re okay. Because they’re vaccinated because that’s what technically a vaccine is supposed to do is protect us from getting ill, but this particular one doesn’t. And so a lot of my patients who are vaccinated just say, Well, I don’t have to worry about anything and it’s like, Hmm. No, you do have to worry about it, especially if you’ve not gotten sick with the virus. Yes.

Dr. Peter McCullough 7:46
I’d agree with that. You’re on the CDC tells Americans as of August 30 2021, you know, they don’t have every case, but they’ve got really well characterized cases from the, from the Department’s of Public Health. That report in the CDC is telling Americans 12,908 Americans have been fully vaccinated, and they’ve developed COVID-19. Sadly, of that number 2,437 have died, and 10,471 have been hospitalized and then potentially died thereafter. An 87% of those who died are over age 65. 70% of those hospitalized over 65. So the CDC is telling Americans that the vaccines don’t protect against hospitalization and death in everyone. And in fact, everybody should be on guard. I’ve had my patients I’ve even had patients who have taken the booster now, and they’ve developed COVID-19. So we need to treat early and we cannot assume the vaccine is going to protect anyone.

Debra Muth 8:43
Yeah, that is so true. So you’re a Cardiologist and a Kidney Specialist. What are you seeing long term with people who either have had COVID or maybe are vaccine injured? Are you seeing cardiac and kidney long term effects?

Dr. Peter McCullough 8:59
Let’s take the kidney first. I’m an Internist and Cardiologist but you’re right I focus on kidney disease. I’m the president of the Cardio Renal Side of America. What we know there is a paper from Northwell Health on Long Island. Fishbane is one of the authors Dr. Fishman and Nephrologist demonstrated there is acute kidney injury that occurs with COVID-19 in the hospital. Other studies have shown the virus can end up in the urine. So we know the virus does attack the kidneys. But the kidneys in many ways are the victim of other toxicity. So Remdesivir used in the hospital has renal toxicity, so do some other medications used. And if patients can get by in the hospital without acute kidney injury they do find at home, there isn’t any signal of long term kidney damage. The same is not true for the heart. The heart is very different. We know what the natural infection that there can be an elevation in opponent as well as some signs and symptoms of what’s considered heart injury. The Chinese called a cardiac injury with the virus. But very importantly, the elevations in opponent are low. Follow up MRI studies show that this ICU type of cardiac injury to the heart is negligible provided people survive. And then if we fast forward to the vaccines, it’s very different. The vaccines give a very large dose of spike protein because the messenger RNA or ad no viral DNA tricks the body in a mosaic of cells to produce the spike protein, probably in much larger quantities than one would experience with the natural infection. We know that because the antibodies that are generated after vaccination are way higher than they are with the natural infection they fall off quickly. But the spike protein exposure to the body must be significant. It’s measurable in blood is shown by Ogata and colleagues from Harvard for at least two weeks. If the vaccine sets up shop in the heart, and the heart begins to produce the spike protein then is expressed on the cell surface the body attacks heart muscle cells and satellite cells called Parasites. And then heart inflammation starts with it’s not a good thing to have inflammation of the heart, and then there can be heart damage. Now the opponent levels that we measure in vaccine Myocarditis are way higher than the natural infection. And the evidence we see an EKG and Echocardiogram suggests that the vaccine and do smart carditis is far more serious than anything we see with the natural infection.

Debra Muth 11:23
Is there anything people can do if they do want to take the vaccine, but they’re concerned about heart issues? Maybe they have a strong family history of cardiac Is there anything they can do to protect themselves when they’re getting the vaccine and doing the things that’s supposed to do inside their body to reduce that inflammation?

Dr. Peter McCullough 11:40
I say first up, get good advice and see a Cardiologist. I’m concerned I’ve seen patients who’ve had chemotherapy induced cardiac toxicity in the past prior genetic cardiomyopathies other structural heart disease. Well, we know there if there’s any baseline problem with the heart, and then we add on to it. vaccine induced my carditis when it happens, and the FDA tells us it can for Pfizer, Madonna, there’s official warnings, patients can be taken into a spiral in a sense. So you’re already set up for a concern regarding injury, and then it happens. So the most obvious example would be a heart transplant candidate. I was asked this on FOX news this week with Laura Ingram. What if there’s a heart transplant candidate, so they’re barely surviving and hearthfire waiting for transplnant. The last thing we want to do is have them get vaccine induced cardiac injury with Myocarditis that could actually end their lives before they get a chance to take a vaccine. So any heart transplant program that would advise that is, in my view, clearly giving the patient advice in the wrong direction for survival. We’d much rather if it came up now COVID can be avoided through careful measures, but COVID the respiratory illness is always treatable. It looks like the vaccine injuries are far less treatable across Cardiac, Neurologic and Immunologic spectrum of disease.

Debra Muth 13:04
Is there a timeframe that we’re going to see this cardiac damage occur with the vaccine? So if somebody gets past a certain date, are they safe? Or do we still need to be concerned for them?

Dr. Peter McCullough 13:16
I would reference counting colleagues, that is a paper published from the UC California. And their Myocarditis was evaluated through a variety of data systems. And what she showed is I’m sorry, as Tracy Hogue, who published it, HOHE That, that demonstrated that it occurs far more in younger men than women. And it’s really explosive after the second shot, a very explosive in the cases I’ve seen, that’s exactly what it is. It’s almost as if the body is primed. And then the second shot, it takes off, we don’t know what’s going to happen in when it happens, it appears serious. In the hug paper. 86% of people require hospitalization. So this is significant. In the original CDC data, they only had the CDC only had about 200 cases they reviewed, they reported 90% required hospitalization, and and then about a quarter had reduced heart pumping function left and sugar dysfunction. Now if we look at the current CDC data in the various vaccine event reporting system, we’re up to 6,812 cases of Myocarditis, Pericarditis. This is not rare. These look like they’re very serious cases. I know in young people, they’re very concerned because the young people have a negligible risk of COVID-19 hospitalization and death. And in fact, in the hope paper, she calculated, a young person is far more likely to be hospitalized with Myocarditis than they are to be hospitals with COVID-19 it’s a much better risk proposition to just get COVID-19 and get it over with as opposed to take the vaccine.

Debra Muth 14:57
And we don’t understand why it’s it’s hitting these younger males do we like there’s no reasoning why it would hit that population versus an older population? Is that correct?

Dr. Peter McCullough 15:08
You know, it’s unclear we know there is some gender relationships with the natural infection so men do a little bit worse with the respiratory infection. We know that androgens do influence some aspects of viral replication. It’s one of the reasons why the Brazilians innovated with use of anti androgens temporarily in treating acute COVID-19. But why in a young man would they take up messenger RNA in a pattern in the heart and begin to damage the heart not miss not exclusively men girls can get it to this predilection is something that we need to pursue. Any young man particularly a young athlete, ought to look at this very carefully because when this heart damage occurs, a lot of it can be subclinical, and we never know if the person gets back to completely get back to normal. My clinical experiences and those who have early evidence of heart failure, they do need drugs for a period of time about three to six months as our guidelines say they cannot have physical activity, they have to have follow up component EKG echocardiography, I add in I also measure some biomarkers for cardiac dysfunction including blood BMP, st two and galectin. Three and successfully, if patients can get through this period of time with the use of beta blockers renin angiotensin system inhibitors I’ve empirically used prednisone and colchicine to get patients through the illness, that we can restore things back to normal. And I think when an individual has no more signs of symptoms, all the biomarkers are normal. The EKG is normal. The echocardiogram or MRI is normal. I think we’re done. But that’s a lot for a young person to go through. We’re a vaccine, that’s basically for them. This is the common cold, why would they have to go through all that, for such for such a simple illness? Young kids get four to six colds a year anyway, they can’t tell the difference between a common cold and COVID.

Debra Muth 17:02
Now well, these people have lifelong problems with their heart. I mean, obviously, we don’t know. But we can suspect if they have a mild carditis they are at higher risk for other heart issues as they age cracked.

Dr. Peter McCullough 17:14
We don’t know that. We’re hopeful that it’s just you know, it’s a one time illness is transient, there’s no permanent mark, if we see a reduced ejection fraction, if we see evidence of scarring in the heart, and I would be concerned if someone had baseline cardiomyopathy, let’s say a young person has Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy, that’s one in 500 have that condition or someone has a Titan mutation. We know in the idiopathic Cardiomyopathy, these are genetic mutations called Titan in about 80% of the non ischemic group, these people would be the setup for future problems of the heart. The other principle is, if there has been prior myocarditis under no circumstances would we want to have another case of myocarditis. So this has happened if what if somebody had COVID-19? They’ve had subtle myocardial COVID-19? They’re fine. Should they take the COVID-19 vaccines? I’d say under no circumstances because once you’ve had COVID-19, you can’t get it a second time. So there’s, there’s really no no risk to that individual. And if you just take the vaccine for the heck of it, and then go ahead and Primus system, one is inviting a second case of myocarditis. And in general, when my occurred, it strikes for the second time it can be fatal.

Debra Muth 18:28
Well,there’s also some clotting issues that we’re seeing with the vaccine. I know we see some of that with the infection itself. I’ve had a few patients who have developed clotting when they after they’ve had COVID or during their COVID episode, but almost every patient I’ve had that has had that has tested positive for something like lupus anticoagulant disorder or some other clotting issue. But we’re also seeing that with the vaccine too. How do you recommend people navigate that? I know I’ve heard you talk about it before like doing some testing shortly after. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Dr. Peter McCullough 19:03
Yeah, you hit on a good point. So blood disorders are common, particularly clotting disorders. The most common one in Caucasian people like me is factor five Leiden, but there are others as Prothrombin variant 2021-A factor. Other factor abnormalities, protein CNS deficiency, as an example of this Fibrogen Anemia, these blood disorders, or a predilection to blood clotting, let’s say somebody already had a blood clot in their legs, for instance, where they have atrial fibrillation, they’re at risk from blood clotting, or they’ve already had a thrombo embolic stroke, watch out, because both the respiratory infection and the vaccines are very pro coagulant. They’re very blood clot provoking, and so I’m extremely concerned. So for instance, if I have a patient with factor five lighting and they get the respiratory illness, I do not waste any time I put them immediately on Lovenox, or Oral Anticoagulants, someone who is contemplating the vaccine They need to understand that they could get in trouble assess a patient effector five leidner per thrombin variant. With the Johnson and Johnson vaccine and the AstraZeneca vaccine. There are official warnings that the ad no viral mechanism is probably even more pro thrombotic than other mechanisms. However, with Pfizer Madonna, the safety reports are really loaded with a whole variety of thrombotic syndromes including partial portal vein thrombosis in the abdomen, and deep venous thrombosis as of September 24,2021. The CDC is telling us that we’ve had 7,582 heart attacks provoked afterwards, we’ve had 3,427 cases of what’s called Thrombocytopenia, low platelets. Paradoxically, some of these thrombotic events occur in what’s called vaccine induced Thrombocytopenic Purpura, this is actually now a new disease caused by the vaccines. And here, the body is tricked into getting excessive antigenic presentation of platelets and they form antibodies against platelet factor for that pins down the platelets against the blood vessel wall and provokes a thrombosis in this setting of thrombocytopenia. So this is called VITT, it’s a new disease. And unlike the other forms of vaccine injuries, it usually occurs about two weeks afterwards. So if patients about two weeks after injection, start to get blood in their urine, easy bleeding, end up with a stroke or a heart attack immediately suspect VITT and then one would need a complete blood count for the general assessment of hypercoagulability with a natural infection. And now with the vaccine, the test we do is actually the D dimer. Because the spike protein attaches to silac acid residues on the surface of red blood cells, as shown by David shine, who’s a former NIH researcher, we know the micro thrombosis is this unique part of the procoagulant aspect of both the vaccine and of the respiratory infections due to the spike protein, what triggers our recognition is the D dimer. So again, with the natural infection, and even post vaccine were on high alert for thrombotic complications when the D dimer is above the reference range.

Debra Muth 22:13
Wow. Are you seeing your colleagues actually be proactive and checking these numbers in cases of people who are at risk or have concerns? Or are they just ignoring some of the things that we know to do naturally because someone has COVID?

Dr. Peter McCullough 22:30
We haven’t had a report from our CDC and FDA from the very beginning. I think that minimum expectations would be monthly reports on safety. So the sponsors of the program, they have all the data, they should be giving doctor’s safety reports at least once a month, what what should we be checking after the vaccine? What what’s the standard medical evaluation look like for a Vaccine Injury? How far should we go? When should we get CNS imaging for instance, with the neurologic syndromes? When should we get Thrombin EKGs echocardiograms with the cardiac syndromes, you know there’s a whole new disease category that’s been created with the vaccines and the people hold out the data are the the CDC and the FDA and they should be providing guidance. Now, Academicians are getting data into the literature to make us understand these syndromes. One of them was published in the journal hypertension, and was one of very good journals in Cardiology, showing that in patients who received the vaccine, and they have pre existing hypertension, they can have a skyrocketing blood pressure, and then had it have catastrophic consequences, including cerebral hemorrhage. One of these cases was on Fox News with Laura ingram. Several months ago, a woman in her 70’s, who had this on the second injection of a messenger RNA vaccine is devastated. She is neurologically devastated and paralyzed on one side. And then in our circles in Dallas, where we have a 42 year old man, perfectly healthy, took the second shot of messenger RNA vaccines and suffered a an Aortic dissection, that was probably triggered by severe hypertension after the vaccine. So we have a whole array of what’s called vaccine reaction risks. And that’s when doctors evaluate the risks and benefits of the vaccine. They weigh out these risks. That is the consequences. The general principles are, if there’s already injury in an organ system that is at risk for the vaccine, that consequences could be worse. So let’s say somebody who has multiple sclerosis or a prior stroke, or epilepsy or migraine headaches, or they already have some hearing loss or vision loss, well, then everything’s amplified, right? So they take the vaccine and they have any additional injury. We’re in trouble. Let’s say somebody has previously had gamma ray syndrome. Well, now we’re really asking for it right because now this person is already shown the Predilection or or Cervical Myelitis What have you ever had a young man who already had some degree of paralytic injury to lower extremity it was markedly worse than after vaccination. I saw a patient yesterday in my office This who had a Dystonia and was concerned Well, you know, I don’t know the relationships, but she’s already neurologically impaired. She was struggling in the exam. And I can tell you what if she takes a neurologic injury, clearly patients with prior cardiomyopathy, prior heart failure, prior myocardial infarction, prior stroke, all of these things, set the patient up for a vaccine induced injury or have a greater expression of it if it happens.

Debra Muth 25:24
And yet, what the CDC and the FDA are saying is, these are the people that are at risk. These are the people that should be taking the vaccine. And yet what we’re seeing clinically is so different how to how to patients understand if they have two polarizing opposites, telling them what to do.

Dr. Peter McCullough 25:44
I don’t disagree with the comments that the seniors are risk for COVID-19. There’s no doubt about it. They’re the ones who are getting hospitalized. They’re the ones who are dying, not the kids. So the senior so I agree with that. So but the seniors also are the ones that are most at risk for these really fatal vaccine injuries analysis by McLaughlin and colleagues from London has shown that this seniors are the ones that are taking the brunt of the vaccine induced deaths by 86% of the time, there’s no other explanation for why they died, they took the vaccine, 50% of them die within 48 hours. 80% die within a week. So it’s heartbreaking that they’re facing the risks of dying with COVID. And they’re facing the risks of dying with the vaccine. So I think it’s an individual choice. The stakes are so high, we certainly can’t have the vaccine mandated. I mean when you can imagine heavy and dated on you or your family member and then they die because of the mandated product. So we know mandates in no way shape or form can be acceptable, because the risks of death and permanent disability are so high.

Debra Muth 26:45
And we should be advocating for early treatment or prevention. India is doing a great job giving their people prophylactic antibiotics and ivermectin and a few other things, and their cases are dropping drastically. But here we’re still saying you can’t use Ivermectin, President Biden’s still saying we’re not going to stop the import into this country, when we have a very inexpensive drug that could very much help almost everybody.

Dr. Peter McCullough 27:13
I agree with that. But I would make the point that neither Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine are necessary nor sufficient to treat the illness. So your doctor Chetty in South Africa, Dr. Brett dios in South America, they’ve really been innovative. They use protocols that don’t rely on those two drugs, we have to use a few other drugs in that middle phase to reduce inflammation. So ones that come into use are Cyproheptadine, Montelukast, and the Anti Androgens in the middle layer. But one can get by without those drugs. That the point is in the countries that really do have good early treatment programs. And one now is Italy. They were they were off track for a while, but Italy, you know, their Delta curve was less than 25% of their first wave that explanation wave. In Israel, they’re doing a terrible job with early treatment, highly vaccinated, their Delta wave is bigger than their pre vaccination wave. In the United States, our delta wave turned out to be about 75% of our December pre vaccination wave we did better with early treatment, we’ve kept mortalities down. Americans did not hear about the hospitals being overloaded, thank goodness. So we’re doing better with early treatment. But the message from your show to the listeners is everybody needs to be about where about early treatment, go get the download the treatment guides to for Health Foundation to for Health.org has one, the Association of American physicians surgeons aaps online.org has done, you know, Frontline Critical Care Consortium flcc dotnet. There are wonderful organizations, anybody types in COVID home treatment guy, get the guide, get the nutraceuticals get full dose aspirin, get the oral and nasal disinfect disinfected program going and get ready for COVID-19. I have patients that are in their upper 80’s right now that I’m managing my practice, I’m able to do it, they’re able to get through it at home. They’re grateful I can tell you, these patients with no treatment, they are destined to end up in the hospital on the ventilators that we must treat early at home Americans know that.

Debra Muth 29:15
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. I know you have to run and I want you to be on time. So thank you so much for joining us. This was an amazing interview.

Dr. Peter McCullough 29:25
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Debra Muth 29:26
All right. Thank you. Bye bye. Hey, it has been really great sharing this time with you guys on the Let’s Talk Wellness Now podcast. If this episode has helped you or you feel as though this episode would help someone else we’d love for you to leave us a review. Share this podcast. And if you don’t want to miss the most exciting episodes we have coming. We’d love for you to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes or Google Play. Until next time, live every day to the fullest

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