Episode 169: How Your Immune Systems Fights Viruses with Dr. Mobeen

Dr. Mobeen and Dr. Deb discuss how the immune system manages viral exposure. 

Do not miss these highlights:

09:51 Why do some people when they get COVID, their immune system reacts in such an intense way that they can even die, and then in some people, it doesn’t even cause symptoms?

12:07 It is possible that autoantibodies develop with COVID.

15:15 How do we define allergic when compared to infection.

17:36 Both with COVID and with vaccines, it is seen that the cells can go and live in the bone marrow for decades.

19:28 COVID is such a horrible virus that can bring every tissue stress and more stress to the immune system cells. 

20:49 A study says that vaccines cause reprogramming of the innate arm cells or called immune reprogramming.

23:51 Pfizer vaccine causes immune systems activity to drop.

28:12 How our immune system works in cycles, that is why patients with an autoimmune disease or even an acute disease will get relapses.

36:49 The process and factors of how people got infected with COVID, and how it is possible and entirely normal for us to develop an infection and even a disease after having the infection or vaccination

50:08 These vaccines need to be redesigned.

58:38 Adenovirus-based vaccines aren’t good for women under 50, similarly, messenger RNA vaccines are not good for men under 30.

Resources Mentioned

Whether you are recovering from an illness or just looking to maintain your current overall health, schedule a consult with us at Serenity Health Care by calling  (262)522-8640 or visit https://www.serenityhealthcarecenter.com 

About our Guest:

Mobeen Syed is a physician. He graduated from King Edward Medical University in 1994. After practicing clinical medicine for a few years, he continued his studies in Computer Science with the goal of merging innovative technologies and healthcare. Dr. Mobeen’s dedication for teaching began at Horizon Medical Institute. Dr. Mobeen’s unique skillset as a physician and software engineer enabled him to innovate several products, including a portable 3D ultrasound system designed by MediTeQ RI. His experience as a high tech executive includes time at Staples, Kohl’s, Rue Lala, Gemvara, TJX, and most recently e-commerce giant, PayPal. Dr. Mobeen’s dedication to innovative and pioneering medical education has been a mainstay in his life. At DrBeen Corp, he strives to create a managed marketplace for medical providers that enables them to learn medicine in conjunction with new technologies. Dr. Mobeen loves painting, music, medical illustrations, teaching, reading, and playing ping-pong. Dr. Mobeen, his wife Hina, and his two sons, currently live in the heart of Silicon Valley, Cupertino, California.

Website: https://www.drbeen.com/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/usmleonline

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drbeenmedical/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/drbeen_medical

Transcript of Episode #169:

Debra Muth 0:02
Welcome to Let’s Talk wellness. Now, I’m your host, Dr. Deb. This is where we talk about everything wellness, and learn to defy aging, and live our lives on our own terms. Welcome back to Let’s Talk wellness.

Debra Muth 0:17
Now, I’m your host, Dr. Deb. And today I have with me Dr. Mobeen, who is going to be my guest. And I’m really excited to bring him to you. Because I found him on YouTube, as I was watching medical lectures and looking for information about not just COVID, but other medical processes, and looking for somebody who really understands the biochemistry of what’s going on. And I’ve watched probably 100 of his lectures over the last year. And I’ve been so impressed with his ability to teach and his ability to share complex information in a place where anyone without medical training, can really understand the process and what’s going on in the body. It’s been really amazing. And as for medical professionals, his lectures have been at a caliber that we understand, but also providing us the language to be able to explain it to somebody else who doesn’t have that medical background. So I wanted to bring him on to the show today so that we could have a conversation about COVID and what he’s seeing an immunity and how our immune systems are working, and why we’re responding the way we are to this virus. And what is he seeing and what does he he project over the course of the next few years that we might see as a result of this illness itself. So let me give you a little background of Dr.Mobeen. He is a physician. He’s graduated from King Edward Medical University in 1994. And after practicing clinical medicine for a few years, he continued his studies in computer science with a goal of emerging innovative technologies and health care. Dr. Mobeen has dedicated his dedication for teaching which began at the horizon Medical Institute. His unique skill set as a physician and a software engineer enable him to be innovative. And so he has created several projects products including a portable 3d ultrasound system, designed by meddiet Many T Ri and he has experience in high tech executive, which includes places like Staples, Kohl’s, Rue La La, TJ X, and most recently in the E commerce space of PayPal. Dr. Mobeen dedication to innovative and pioneering medical education has been a mainstay in his life. At Dr. Mobeen Corp. He strives to create a managed marketplace for medical providers that enables them to learn medicine in conjunction with new technologies, which I’m so grateful for four. He loves painting music, medical illustrations, which you’ll find in his YouTube videos, which I find so amazing teaching, reading and playing ping pong, Dr. Mobeen, his wife Hina and two sons currently live in the heart of Silicon Valley in California. And he is amazing. You guys are gonna love him. So let’s hear a word from our sponsor. And then I’m going to bring Dr. Mobeen in and we are going to have this conversation about what can we expect from the immune system going forward in the next few years. So hang tight, and we’ll be right back.

Debra Muth 3:57
Have you seen 20 Plus medical doctors only to be told your symptoms are in your head or you need an antidepressant? We understand your frustrations? Are you tired of feeling sick and tired? Tired of not getting the answers you need to regain your health? Tired of not feeling listened to by your doctor at Serenity Health Care Center, we understand and we will help you find the cause of your symptoms. Together we will create a path to health. We specialize in combining the best of conventional and natural medicine to get you back to doing what you love. We have worked with the most complex chronic diseases such as chronic Lyme COVID, long haulers, autoimmune disease, mold toxicity and hormonal imbalances. But if you’re not sick, that’s fantastic. We will work with you to maintain your health so that you can prevent illness, give our office a call to see how we can help you regain your health and vitality at 262-522-8640. Or check us out at our website at Serenity health care center.com.

Debra Muth 5:16
So welcome back to the show I have with me Dr. Mobeen, and I’m so excited to bring this guest to you guys. Like I had said earlier, I’ve been so impressed with all of the lectures he’s been doing and all the education he’s been putting out there. And I especially love his drawings, I have to say that I’m so impressed by your drawings, because I don’t draw at all and I love watching them. And I’ve been following you for about a year now. And I’ve been super impressed with what you’re delivering from an education standpoint in medicine, and how easy you make it for people who are non medical, to understand it, as well, for those of us that are medical, you help us be able to put it into terms so that we can explain it to our patients who are non medical. So thank you for that. It’s been wonderful.

Dr. Mobeen 5:58
This was the basic intent. And I think it has worked out very well for the medical students for the healthcare professionals, and for general public as well. This is a mission of Dr. Bean, as well. So it all works out.

Debra Muth 6:12
That’s awesome. I love it. And I’ll keep watching and I keep sharing it. And all my practitioners at my office, I have to say they all love watching your videos as well. And we have conversations about them every week. And we tried to digest them ourselves and share them with people. So thank you for that.

Dr. Mobeen 6:30
You are very welcome. I’m glad to hear that.

Debra Muth 6:33
Thank you. So today we’re going to talk about the immune system and COVID. And I’d love to hear what you’re seeing on your research and the knowledge that you have about how is the immune system being affected by both the vaccine and the virus? Do we see a difference in there?

Dr. Mobeen 6:53
Got it very interesting and very broad question. Let me start with this context. Even in my own talks, I sometimes miss adding this statement. And then I see that sometimes listeners just go in a rabbit hole and they get stuck there. The context is this. None of these discussions will change anything immediately in terms of understanding of the disease that we know clinically. And understanding of the vaccines as we know clinically, for example, clinically, we know that there is when 100 People become positive for COVID, about 20 or 21 will end up in hospital or then from them about another five six will end up in ICU and unfortunately about three would die as well. This is a clinical outcome. And then we know that they will be about 2.7% of the population from UK’s data will become long COVID over about 8% of the COVID cases will become long COVID. So as we discussed immunology, or these mechanisms, I want us to make sure that we can keep the clinical outcome in our mind as well. That these for example, when you listen to some immunology mechanism that scares you, then keep it in balance to say, Well, I still have the COVID does this. And we know that and same is the truth for the vaccines as well. So when we talk about vaccine, let’s say vaccine caused immune modulation or change, keep in mind that vaccines are given to millions of billions of people. There are side effects as well, there are positive outcomes as well. There are some, some cohorts, some groups that benefit more from them, some groups do not benefit as much some groups actually it seems to me that their benefit may be less than than the kind of risk that we are causing by vaccination. So those clinical sides or observations have to be kept in mind when we talk about terminology and mechanism. So with this, let’s start so I’m going to start the discussion and Deb please chime in and kind of drive that discussion with me as well because it’s a very big topic and I can go on. So first of all, COVID and Immunology. There is so much evolving. I believe that as much as this pandemic has been damaging to humankind, there has been so much research and an advancement in medicine understanding as well. At a very general public level that we are going to get a lot of benefit in the future for other diseases as well. COVID has some of course, acute problems to the point that it can kill some and that is the cytokine storm is the biggest problem and that problem, why does it occur? Why does Why do some people when they get COVID? Why do their immune system react in this intense way that they can even die. And then in some people, it doesn’t even cause symptoms. So, the the interesting thing to keep in mind number one, during COVID, the macrophages, which are a big part of the immune system, innate arm of the immune system, and the job is to clean up the pathogen and kind of then clean out those cells that are infected with the pathogen are making hand gestures, if I had a drawing board, I would have drawn, right.

Dr. Mobeen 10:47
And so macrophages can sometimes become activated and not not go back to their reset state. Now, why are they not going back to the reset state that is the big mystery. And there are so many pathologies that we are seeing now, for example, it is possible that the cells are continuing to get triggers inflammatory triggers in relapses by those memory cells that were produced as a result of COVID infection. That is one possibility. Then if you look at Dr. Bruce Patterson’s research, and Debbie were mentioning him as well, a few minutes ago, his research says that the S one part of this white protein gets stuck in the monocyte. And then the monocyte just become long lived. And when they are long lived. Surprisingly, they should not be but they are that is the research from Dr. Patterson and his team. So when they’re long lived, then they have an S one in them a foreign antigen in them, they would keep becoming upset about it, and they would keep releasing Saito, inflammatory markers, those markers, then in turn, would continue to cause inflammatory cycles in the body. Then, we are also seeing with COVID, that it is possible that auto antibodies develop many of these things, what actually possible are possible vaccines to auto antibodies are that and this is a known mechanism for a long time, it’s just that COVID Does SASC have to do these all kinds of problems. So auto antibodies are that if our immune system somehow thinks that our tissue is involved, in some bad thing, a tissue becomes foreign to it. For example, when the virus is infecting the tissue, let’s say cardiac tissue, or the blood vessels, and immune system looks at both of them. So let’s say this head of mine is the tissue, and this is the virus. And if they’re both combined, now, when immune system looks at it, immune system, takes a whole thing is a foreign thing and starts attacking it, then there is a possibility. This is called the network hypothesis. This is Dr. Neil genkan GenCon his theory, and that theory was that let’s say we have spike protein that arrives in our body, either vaccine or the COVID.

Dr. Mobeen 13:21
Now we make antibodies against the spike protein. And normally when the antibodies are made, they’re complementary to what they are going to bind with. So, let’s say if the spike protein is like my fist here, then the antibody will have to be a shape that can adjust to that and normally spike protein is 1200 or more amino acids, the this coupling is only 1011 22 or so, amino acids. However, when we make these antibodies, our body knows how to remove it at some point because if it just stays there, and we keep making them that can become bad for us. So, body does a very interesting thing and makes an other antibody that can go against this one to clear this out. And that other antibody imagine this is the shape of this antibody, what do you think the other antibodies shape will be? It will have to be complementary right right. So, when they bind, that is how they both now clear each other out. But look at this other antibody, it is the shape or it has the amino acid sequences of Spike protein, because only then they can bind. So now this antibody can start behaving like spike protein surrogate and start activating various ways to receptors and binding it in various places. And this is the auto antibody problem and this is the autoimmune disease. So, antibodies can be produced, macrophages can become stuck in a cycle Have mast cells, we know that when antibodies are produced, they can go and lodge onto the mast cells. And we also know that in our population, about 20% of the people are allergic to things. And what that means is that, how do we define allergic when compared to infection, allergens are substances materials, to which majority of the population does not respond in a negative way, they just say, Oh well, but 20% or a smaller proportion of the population will respond negatively to it. And so we call them allergens, infections or the pathogen, usually cause in fact, a problem with everyone. Now, mast cells are key players for allergies, and one that we need to prime them, we need to kind of make them ready to, to respond to allergens, and the readiness is that we put antibodies on them. So imagine if I am a mast cell and you stick a lot of antibodies in my head, now, I am primed. Now, if you put the foreign material on this antibody, these antibodies are going to act as receptors and I will become active when they are. So imagine now the antibodies that we produced against the COVID, they went in large on to the mast cells, then in the future, when the COVID or vaccine or COVID, like exposure occurs, we get triggers of the mast cells. And then finally, the memory cells that we are forming. So this happens with the vaccines too, this happens with the infection too, when we form when we get the exposure. So let’s say exposure in the deltoid from a vaccine or exposure in the throat area from the infection, local cells respond, they also take the antigen, the infection of the vaccine to the local lymph nodes in case of deltoids will go to the axilla. And in the in the cervical area, in case of throat, they will go to the throat area, you know, behind the ears, in the neck and so on. And then some of these cells will also circulate in the blood. And fourth, some cells would actually go and live in the blood bone marrow as well. So local tissue, lymph nodes, circulation and bone marrow, both with COVID. And with vaccine, it is seen that the cells can go and live in the bone marrow, when they live in the bone marrow, they can actually become long living over there. They can live there for decades in that process, when they’re sitting there. Ideally, they’re supposed to not be active all the time, they need to just sleep there. But it is observed that in some cases, especially in COVID cases, they keep becoming reactivated. And when they become reactivated, they would release inflammatory markers. And what do we have in the bone marrow, we have other immune cells being built, right bone marrow is making blood cells when blood cells are not just the RBCs there are B C’s and platelets and the immune cells. And so the next door immune cells sitting in the bone marrow will become active, which will then cause immune those immune cells to start their activity as well. And for example, EBV virus gene containing memory B cells could be sitting in the bone marrow and now covered memory B cell goes in there and kind of releases cytokines, which causes the EBV cell to become active as well and all of a sudden, our patient has a viral reactivation.

Debra Muth 18:59
We see this a lot with shingles, people who have had COVID are now starting to have herpes outbreaks or shingles outbreaks and and the reactivation of EBV mono, it’s quite common,

Dr. Mobeen 19:12
correct and the EBV This is the mechanism for the EBV reactivation. Now for the other viruses that may not have their representation in the bone marrow for them to be reactivated is very simple because their immune system becomes so busy with COVID COVID is such a horrible virus that it just brings every tissue in stress and the more stress goes to the immune system cells. So when they are reduced in number because they’re fighting with COVID and they’re dying, and new cells are not produced that fast yet. During that time the opportunistic pathogens that are lying around sitting around waiting, they become reactivated, that is one second. Because there are inflammatory markers that are being released from the immune cells, any place where there may have been an inflammation in the past, and whether there may be immune cells related to these inflammatory responses sitting there. It is our immune systems behavior, that if I get an injury and I had let’s say I had throat infection, and then there was some immune responses there, some cells would stay there for long time. So if I had previous inflammations from infections, or I have the actual dormant viruses sitting, they can become reactivated as well. So the there is tons of immune related mechanisms. For example, there is another very interesting mechanism. And I remember when this study came out, there was a lot of concern and nervousness. And that study was that vaccines cause reprogramming of the innate arm cells. And that became a big deal that who man or cells are going to become reprogrammed. And then some folks are reprogramming means the DNA changes, and now all of a sudden vaccines cause DNA change. But generally, innate arms function is to remember pathogens as well. But our acquired arm is better at remembering it can make memory cells in it and cannot make memory cells. So what does it do? Just like we take notes to remember something in there, Tom takes notes by keeping some genes open. So let’s say I am an virus. And I came in this room is an innate armed cell. And I came in and I attacked it. And the innate, responded, let’s say macrophage or dendritic cell, it responded by opening certain genes in it, to make certain poisons to kill me, then it took care of me and it won. Now, this innate arm cell would keep those genes open, it would remind itself that, alright, I need to keep these genes open, because these were the ones that helped against this virus. That is called immune reprogramming.

Dr. Mobeen 22:06
That’s so that when when they see that virus again, they know what to do to attack it and kill it. That’s a good, correct, yes,

Dr. Mobeen 22:14
That’s a good thing. That’s a clear training of the inner term. And that is done in a different way compared to the acquired. So the point is, there are so many immune mechanisms, if you don’t mind that if I can continue a little more on this topic, there was a the noises that came out the echoes that the concerns, sometimes valid, of course, those who do not know the medical concepts or mechanisms are not doctors or nurses or NPs or students, they might get concerned and that would be valid. There was a huge noise at one point that said that the fight Pfizer vaccine causes immune systems activity to drop. And they actually had a document from Pfizer’s own documents where it showed that the lymphocyte the immune cells system cell, so if let’s say they were normal here, then after the vaccination A few days later, they were down here. And then they went back. And these folks said, look, it suppresses the immune system. But that was not the case. And again, when I am doing these talks, the point is not to go and defend the vaccine or defend COVID The point is to bring us to the right place where we should have the right concern. And if there is something that is just a myth, we should be able to dispel that. So that when we are making our case, to say, hey, vaccine has this scare in it, it makes me nervous, because of this reason X, that reason has to be valid. And not myth. This is why I kind of explained these things. So the the interesting thing is very simple, that suppression, it’s very simple. Let’s say that a person gets a vaccine. And now before the vaccine, you take their blood and you count the lymphocytes, then you administer the vaccine. We know that the vaccine is going to cause inflammation, it’s going to cause spike proteins or whatever to be produced, which would then cause immune systems response. Now one immediate response that are just like we have in medicine, the first responders the immediate response that our immune system does is it pulls the cells out of the circulation. and brings them to the area of inflammation. Right, so this is a normal, you can think of circulating cells as a reserve army. And wherever in the tissues, there is a need for it, we then recruit those cells to bring them out of the circulation into the tissue and say, Please fight here, that creates a temporary reduction in cells, then bone marrow gets a message to say, hey, bone marrow, we have consumed some cells, they were pulled out of the circulation, now they are fighting, and some of them are burning out and dying, and we need more. And so bone marrow would kick in and would start making more cells. But bone marrow is a little sluggish thing, it’s like a snail, it would start making the cells right away today, it will make them in two days, three days, five days later. And it it has a capacity, it cannot make lots of cells very fast, it would take some time. And in some people who may have cancers where the bone marrow starts making too many cells, their bone marrow expands and goes and becomes built in other bones as well. But in this case, what would happen is there is a 10 transient reduction in immune cells, if you take the the cell count from their blood, because blood, the cells that were in the blood have gotten out. So blood would show a reduction. And then bone marrow would start making the cells and it would pump them back in the blood and it would come back up. So that reduction was not actually suppression. That would that was actually use it use up of the immune cells to go to the inflammatory area. And this would happen with COVID as well, this would happen with vaccine too. So anyways, I can keep citing studies and talking to you Dr. telling you what is next. Okay, so I’m just picturing something else.

Debra Muth 27:02
So when we have a cytokine storm COVID is not the only illness or disease that causes a cytokine storm, either acutely or chronically, we see that with just about any toxin, mold toxicity, we’ll see a cytokine storm, Lyme disease can create a cytokine storm, lots of other diseases can probably do cause a cytokine storm initially, and like in most people, it should go away and the body should heal itself. But sometimes we don’t know why. But some people will have that inflammatory state over and over again, correct?

Dr. Mobeen 27:37
Correct. Correct.

Dr. Mobeen 27:39
So one of the things we see measuring cytokines in our COVID Long Haul people is they’ll go up, and then they’ll come down, and then we’ll initiate some treatment. And they might all go up again. So now instead of having five cytokines elevated, now they have 10. And then we all freak out and go, Oh my God, what we’re doing is making things worse, but then they come down again. And so that I’m assuming is all a normal process of what our immune system should be doing when it’s trying to repair itself.

Dr. Mobeen 28:11
Absolutely. So our immune system works in cycles. I remember I had a guest, Dr. William Murphy, from Sacramento University, he is a tenured professor. And he’s running some labs with beautiful research about cancer and other immune related mechanisms. And I asked him this question, Deb, that you asked me? And he said, Yeah, so he said his whole life, he’s an immunologist. So his whole life was in immunology. And he said, Yeah, immune system cells, they work in cycles, and that is why patients with the autoimmune diseases or even an acute disease will get relapses. So what happens is that immune system, whenever it becomes active, it also activates the cells that would stop it. So imagine if you are sending armies to go fight somewhere, then you send the armies in with the armies you also send the extra set of people whose job is not to fight, but to stand there and then after four or five days tell the army to stop right. So you regulatory cells are sent with the active cells. So in our immune language, as the T helpers, cells are activated, there are T regulatory cells that are formed as well. The T regulatory cells have internal clocks in them or they have mechanisms in them to understand when to stop the immune system from continuing. So what would happen is two three days later in normal infections, they would then tell the active immune cells to say, Stop, don’t work anymore, you can now die. And these are regulatory behaviors. But imagine if the infection is continuing, then the immune system will become activated again. Or imagine if the infection is not continuing, but some immune cell has become upset because it is stuck with some foreign antigen in it, or it has gotten those antibodies on its surface. Or there are antigen antibody complexes circulating in the body meaning there is some trigger left somewhere, not necessarily in terms of the virus itself. But some parts for example, as one or some rogue immune system cell that has forgotten how to be controlled, in that little cell cluster starts giving inflammatory markers again. And those markers would once again activate the the cells around our tissues that are made up of the various kinds of cells, for example, muscle cells, or blood cells, or liver cells, or tissue have a majority of the cells also, I shouldn’t say majority muscles, majority is muscle cell. But a lot of cells are immune cells here as well, in every tissue, there are macrophages, there are dendritic cells, there are continuous supply of monocytes coming in, there are other cells sitting there as well. So when you secrete a tiny bit of a marker, that is going to activate the ones that are sitting around and all of a sudden you have a blast once again. So usually the regulatory cells are able to control these things. But in COVID cases, there are so many pathologies, and so many abnormalities that this virus creates that immune system just keep going in relapses, what I have observed is that generally those relapse is continued to become less intense. In some people, they become more intense. Most of the time, I’m seeing that generally they start becoming less and less intense, patient actually starts understanding when the relapse can occur, for example, with with exercise, or with stress, or with any kind of activity, which may be beyond their limits, and that would cause the relapse, sometimes relapse just occurs, because as you said, mold or other things, it can occur by you know, environmental factors, sometimes they can occur with allergies. And so patient starts becoming knowledgeable about it, plus, the relapses start becoming longer and longer in duration, meaning the gaps are longer, and the lapses are less intense. There was a study on see if I can take this topic a little in the lung covered as well, there is a study from UK, which said that the if a patient has their symptoms after the COVID, up to three months, but the symptoms stop or start reducing within three months, then by six and a half month, on average, all of their symptoms go away, but they keep relapsing for six and a half months. On the other hand, if a person has symptoms after COVID and the symptoms intensity do not reduce in three months, then they have a highly high likelihood of continuing to have symptoms beyond seven months. And 91% of these patients will have symptoms beyond seven months, however, they would continue to slowly if you don’t manage them, they would continue to become better. But if you manage them, that you can accelerate and control this.

Debra Muth 33:58
Kind of like we see with chronic fatigue syndrome in the herpes family virus with like HHV six and some of those other viral loads where people can have that chronic fatigue and that chronic illness type thing happening.

Dr. Mobeen 34:11
Correct? Yeah. And there are outliers where the intensity increases or relapses are just not there because they’re continuously in the state, or the medicines are not working. So I’m seeing that there are outliers too. But majority goes through this veteran.

Debra Muth 34:33
Can we talk a minute about immunity so we have COVID We get sick with COVID 19. We have immunity for 15 to 18 months minimum that we’re seeing in Dr. Patterson’s work. But then Omichron shows up or a new variant shows up and somebody who had COVID-19 gets sick with Omicron and that’s the outlier, right? Because that was the the first mutation that we said okay, this one doesn’t apply to the other COVID-19 variants. What do we know about that? How did that happen?

Dr. Mobeen 35:06
So it’s a very good question. And this question is so interesting because even our healthcare administrators had some communications that were not entirely hindsight 2020, you can see that these were not entirely correct. For example, there was a message given that if you take vaccine, you will not get the infection, right, then we know that people are getting infected. We know people who are infected before or getting infected, we know people who were infected and then vaccinated are getting infected. So, what we have to understand and interestingly, I was the one for two years, I had been saying, for a respiratory virus, you cannot stop it from landing in our mouth or nose or eyes. So vaccine or a previous infection is not a stop sign for the virus to say this person was vaccinated or infected, please do not arrive in this person’s mouth and nose arise, right? So virus can land in us anytime. However, the question then becomes disease. So infection simply means presence of a pathogen in us. So when the virus would land in our mouth, nose, eyes, we are infected. But when it causes enough damage, and immune system causes enough response, that there is no symptoms that appear, then that is a disease. So infection with ask of two is a different matter. COVID-19 is a different matter. Now, generally, I’m going to give you the process for most people, not outliers. Sure, most people what would happen is you got infection first COVID, let’s say somebody was infected and came near you, it depends now, at at some factors, and I am going to give some of those factors, it is important, instead of just saying there are some factors that will dictate it, let me explain some of the factors. It depends on how far back you are infected. So let’s say if I was infected, two weeks ago, my antibodies are still at high levels. If you infect me again, I would probably not even know that I got the virus landing in my mouth, because I will have IGA covering my mucous membranes, I would have IgM, not IgM, but IgG, running around in the blood as well. So I would not even know the virus came in, I just had had defeated it. So my body is up and running correctly. And I will just wipe it out when it comes back to God infected identity. Well, no. Now let’s say I’ll talk about Omicron a little later. But let’s say now, we go four months and after, why do I take four months, because four months and after the immune systems, antibodies have waned, now that is drained after vaccine or reigned after the infection, they both happens. I give this reference very many times that there is a undergrad level immunology book actually is excellent book. It’s good for all postgrad as well. immunology by Dr. Abbas, or I think about it from Stanford, not from Stanford, but a university in the California on the page nine of that book, he has a diagram where this show that about it fourth month, our immune system, now that book was written before the pandemic, okay, our immune system says, Hey, guys, we have beaten this infection. It’s four months, we were producing more and more antibodies to make sure that if we get exposed again, we can handle it, but looks like there is no more exposure. So it is time to ramp down. And so the message goes from those regulatory cells, the message goes to these active cells, B cells and T cells to say, kill yourself, we do apoptosis, and those cells die. Some of them are kept at the site of infection in the circulation in the lymph nodes. And sometimes even in the bone marrow. These are going to be memory cells for future use to immediately respond. So imagine if somebody Sue’s me becomes infected fifth month, now this infection may actually cause disease as well meaning symptoms as well. Why Because the immune system has ramped down, the active cells have been cleared out, antibodies are gone, or very low levels in the blood. But that doesn’t mean that our immune system doesn’t know how to fight, it doesn’t have the memory cells. Now, when the infection occurs, the immune system is going to take a couple of days, it takes anywhere from 10 in some people 24 to 48 hours in some others, and maybe even one more day. This is a time window in which the immune system would ramp back up. So what do I mean by ramp back up the cells that are memory cells, they’re told that hey, we got the antigen again, we got the exposure again, they were actually sleeping with their hands out the receptors out. So they could actually see oh, man, the the virus is here again, I’m going to become active. And so when they become active, the job is not to start running and beating the virus, they have to make daughter cells, they have to make an army now that needs to go and attack the pathogen. Division of a cell can take hours and hours, it’s not a you snap a finger and the cell divides into. Sometimes cell divisions can take days. Because we divide a cell we then proofread the DNA, we make sure everything is correct. If not correct, we kill the cell, we make it again. So we have to make an army of the cell, right this call the proliferation of the cells, then we have to differentiate them, not only we have to make these baby cells, we have to tell them what they’re going to do. That takes time 10 hours, 24 hour 48 hours for immune cells, other cells eight days. So anyways, during this time that immune system is getting ready. Virus is already going to work. Right? So viruses already replicating in the in the throat cells are going in the other parts, and it is going to start causing symptoms. So that means it is actually possible and entirely normal for us to develop an infection and even a disease after having the infection before or vaccination.

Dr. Mobeen 42:18
I’m so sorry. Just like the flu. Yeah, that’s why we’re always chasing every year a different strain.

Dr. Mobeen 42:57
Become a common cold. Yes. And at this time, we are not at that stage. So taking a risk with the virus is not correct. And I’ve been saying it for two years, don’t take a risk, there was a time when people started saying that, hey, we should have micron parties and those the risk it still contains that risk of killing a person. And we still do not know who will be killed or become long COVID or end up in a hospital with some organ damage, even if they’re not dead. Now, they have a problem with their with the lung tissue, or pancreas or liver or heart. So just be careful. Now, talking about the reinfection, it can happen with the vaccine as well. And a similar mechanism. Actually, you are seeing that the vaccines are so there is the Israeli study, where they showed that fourth booster was becoming almost what it was 1% effective or 2% effective within two months. And in UK study, they they said that the vaccines effect boosters effect went down to 10% within two months, and not 10% that I have seen people saying 10% is good enough, it is an effect anyways. And it’s really not correct because Barr was 60% and above, it seems to me that vaccines are winning faster than natural infection. At the same time, there are studies and you may have seen there are all kinds of studies for each group. And they are using their study. So, there was a study that showed that even with the vaccine, the memory cells can go and live in the bone marrow. And there are studies that have shown that covered infection and memory cells in go and live in the bone marrow that would mean a long terms of protection. Now, vaccine related protection still need to be observed covered related protection can be mapped against the sasco. One with sasco. One, they had seen that the T cell immunity was present even up to 10 years. And B cell immunity was continuing for about three years. So in my opinion, the immunity should be longer lasting with COVID. vaccine should have a better immunity as well. I think this question of reining all antibodies when anyways, we should leave the question of winning, and we should see the efficacy or the cases occurring in vaccinated or not, that should be the measure.

Debra Muth 48:41
So do we truly have a vaccine then if we don’t have immunity beyond two months? Because the definition for vaccine is much different than what we’re actually seeing with this mRNA shot that we’re doing?

Dr. Mobeen 48:55
Yeah, so I think first of all, these were supposed to be vaccines, and I would call them vaccines. That is how they started. The reason I don’t call them not a vaccine, or these are gene therapies. That just just causes the dismantles the whole discussion. Yeah. And a person is just dismissed as a nut case, for example. And my apologies if somebody believes in that. I’m just saying this is the reaction of the healthcare folks. Yeah. So yes, they are vaccine. There are some people who say that this is not a vaccine, it is a drug and understood that. The reason is, vaccine goes for years. And drugs are the one that you give it today and tomorrow it will not be effective or you give it today and a week later, you need to take it again. Vaccine every two months or every month is not a vaccine from that point of view that we expect the vaccine to be two years or three years lifetime, something like that.

Debra Muth 49:59
Right from our definition of vaccine that we use today.

Dr. Mobeen 50:02
Correct and the expectation of the medicine. So from that point of view, yes, these vaccines are reaching a point to be redesigned to be vaccines. Right now, they’re not as efficacious. And this is public data. And this is good studies. It’s not more been saying some 2d here or conspiracy here. Now what should then happen? I think they need to redesign it. So Moderna came back and they said, We are trialing the redesign of our vaccine. So that only can can be covered. So we’ll see but majority, Moderna had remember Moderna had said that we cannot produce this new vaccine for Omicron till August. Right. Do you? Did you see that? Yes. And same was the case with Pfizer as well. Interestingly, they both the company said August, to me, they actually did a video recording in which I showed them that originally, when the vaccines were made, there was a news report where the the inventor of the Pfizer, biontech biontech vaccine, his picture was there. And then it said, he made it in one day. And same case for Moderna, that Moderna scientist made it in hours or two days, something like that. So they could come up with the vaccine in two days when they wanted to. And they call it all we were helping humanity. But now they know that there is not a lot of people taking vaccines. And the majority has become vaccinated or infected. So their previous vaccine doses are still to be sold. And we want newer vaccines so that they are more aligned to omicron. Yeah, and they don’t want to invest in that. So all of a sudden their position of we are for humanity goes out of the window, because well for humanity, why don’t you create a new vaccine in two days as right now

Dr. Mobeen 52:12
becomes more about the money than humanity, unfortunately, which we know is everywhere these days.

Dr. Mobeen 52:19
So still, Modena has actually come back a couple of days ago and said a few days ago, and said that we have created a hybrid vaccine that is previous variants mRNAs in there plus the microns to some mixture. And I had been asking for this mixture for months now. And they are trialing it.

Dr. Mobeen 52:39
Well, that’s good to hear. At least they’re they’re moving things forward.

Dr. Mobeen 52:43
Correct.

Debra Muth 52:44
Absolutely. So Dr. McBean? What kind of advice do you have for people that are sitting on the fence? You know, they’re they’re scared to go out, they’re scared to get the vaccine, they’re scared of the virus? What kind of advice can you give our listeners who are sitting in that positioSo look, if we were in Wuhan time or delta time, we were at more at risk even while waiting, right. So fortunately, this variant has become milder. So there are again, all kinds of studies out there. Some studies say that while hospitalizations are still higher, but I all data shows, in all reports, for example, UK reports, they show that it is milder. So that is a good luck. For anyone who is still waiting, at least the virus itself is becoming less punishing. Then the decision making, for me, it becomes very simple. When I was making this decision for myself and discussing it with my family, we all thought we should go get a vaccine and and that is what we all did. We went ahead and we got the vaccine. In that process. I have repeatedly discussed it. My wife developed vaccine injury. And it’s now she was telling me a few days ago, she said it’s now six months or more or eight months. She still has the facial. It is not as intense anymore as it was, but she still has a reminder that she had that Bell’s Palsy. Sure. So she had Jansen and Jansen. And when a few days ago, authorities came out and they said anybody who had Johnson and Johnson, we would ask them to recommend them to go get two doses of mRNA vaccines. And we were very hesitant. I don’t think that we would have gone because number one, she became injured number two Nobody cared. There was no program. She talked with a doctor. And the doctor said, Well, this is this is Bell’s Palsy. It happens in patients at your age. And when it becomes too bad and your face droops, come back to me, and I’ll give you Botox injections to make it better. That was her doctor. Until I begged her to say this is not age related Bell’s palsy Your age is not such. Let’s have she actually did not believe that this was something to do with the vaccine. So I said at least let’s manage it, as it may be. And so all that management, the doctor’s fees, the labs, the drugs, all of that was out of pocket. Yeah, because nobody else. So one, they don’t care. Now, I think that there is an active suppression. I did a discussion a few days ago, actually, this Friday, what spiked protein in the blood. And people started tweeting to YouTube saying this guy’s spreading misinformation. And I was talking about a study from Yale and Harvard. And that was sponsored by Gates Foundation, oh, my gosh, and NIH. So as much as we like or not like the foundation, it was a mainstream study from very good institutions. And they were saying that there is a spike protein in the blood after the first dose of vaccination, then it disappears after the second one, because the complexes are formed. And I discussed that, and people were up in arms, and they were up, upset, and they were going after me, and they’re tweeting, to the YouTube and so on. And I felt that we are intentionally keeping ourselves continuously at the risk of damage, because we are continuously trying to suppress such information.

Debra Muth 57:02
And not just having those open medical discussions that we’ve had for decades and openly had them and had no problems in the past prior to COVID. Having these kinds of discussions about what we’re seeing with new medications, new drugs, new everything, because that’s what this is. It’s all new for us. We don’t know what we don’t know yet.

Dr. Mobeen 57:25
Correct. And there was somebody who was arguing with me, and they said, well, previously, you would not inform everybody. And now there are people who listen to these and they become confused. The problem is, the whole world at this time is at risk. Yeah, we are all stakeholders. It’s not here is a cardiovascular disease drug, which is only applicable to cardiovascular patients. We are all stakeholders to the point of we could die. Yeah. Right. So we all are interested in understanding what’s happening, what is right, what is not right. And how to conduct ourselves what to do. What is Dr. Thinking, what is the new science coming up? So suppressing this is just so odd and so unAmerican, and so unhuman. Inhuman maybe. So going back to this? What was your original question that sorry?

Dr. Mobeen 58:25
Oh, the advice that we could give people who are sitting on the fence, they don’t know what to do?

Dr. Mobeen 58:29
Yeah, so here’s how I see it. And again, this is not medical advice. This is how I think about it for myself and my family. Number one, we know that adenovirus based vaccines aren’t good for women under 50, my wife is under 50 as well and this is the vaccine and she had the issue, this is not good for women. Similarly, messenger RNA vaccines are not good for men under 30. So when somebody is thinking of having these vaccines, realize that if you are a woman who is under 50, I don’t think adenovirus based vaccines are good. mRNA could be okay. Then the second part, if somebody is under 30, they generally have a better opportunity to survive, although there are risks there as well I cannot say that there are no risks. So that means you still have to put the the risk in front of you and then decide how much nervous are you about it, and it could the virus could kill you. And so you have to then decide when I have a vaccine or not. But under 30s are usually faring better. And I feel that from the data the even the younger ages, even younger ages that is 12 Year 15 years. They seem to not have as much of a problem with the virus compared to what is happening with the vaccine to them. And finally, comorbidities. If someone has comorbidities regardless of their age, they should consider vaccine, because comorbid are the folks that are getting more damaged by the virus. So even in children, there was a study from UK where I think, if I recall it correctly, it was about one and a half year ago, all the children who died of COVID were already either terminally ill, or had severe comorbidities like cancers or immunosuppression. And those who are healthy did not. So comorbidity is an important factor, or regardless of the age or gender. And that is where the vaccine is an important factor. Other than that, there are vaccines and you should look at which vaccine is good for which cohort. At this time, vaccines and their boosters and Omicron. It almost seems like becoming useless. But there is there are benefits in the vaccines, and specifically for certain cohorts, for example, COMAR, better or higher, advanced ages, and they should consider them.

Debra Muth 1:01:30
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for all of your advice and your information. It’s been wonderful. tell our listeners where they can get more information from you on your medical lectures, because I know they’re going to want to dig deeper and listen to you more often.

Dr. Mobeen 1:01:46
Absolutely. Thank you very much for this opportunity. You can look for Dr. Been medical lectures on YouTube. And I have more than 2000 videos and COVID and then others. And if you are interested in medical lectures, if you’re a medical student or a nursing student or NP DNP, PA or medical doctor, then drbeen.com has a very affordable price for about 802,000 Premium lectures as well. So these are the places to find me. Wonderful.

Debra Muth 1:02:24
Thank you so much for joining us today.

Dr. Mobeen 1:02:27
Thank you very much for having me.

Debra Muth 1:02:30
Hey, it has been really great sharing this time with you guys on the let’s talk wellness now podcast. If this episode has helped you or you feel as though this episode would help someone else we’d love for you to leave us a review, share this podcast and if you don’t want to miss the most exciting episodes we have coming. We’d love for you to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes or Google Play. Until next time, live every day to the fullest.

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